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Why is the default workflow now metal

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14 comments

  • Official comment
    Jonathan (Community Manager)

    VitLoss Metalness is not case of catering to "beginners" but rather focusing on the main user base that we have. Metalness users outnumber specular and gloss by a significant number. You're still able to export to S/G from the Metalness workflow so this should have a minimal impact. Regardless, thank you for your feedback. As we don't have any plans to change this, the thread has run its course. We'll keep your feedback for future reference in the case that this policy changes in Mixer's development. Thank you!

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  • Erich3D

    Not sure what you are seeing, because my 2020 uses both Metal and Spec workflows at the same time.  As for it defaulting to PBR Metallic, the assumption would be its support of game engines first.  

    When you go to the viewport drop down you don't see PBR Spec?

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  • Waqas

    Mixer 2020 now only supports the Metalness workflow.

    Please have a look at this article - https://help.quixel.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006289478-Is-Specular-Workflow-supported-in-Mixer-2020- 

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  • Jimbobaggins

    Yes I can see it in the drop down but changing to it does nothing.

    Every time I import a local surface that was a custom import it defaults back to Metallic and the surface looks weird.

    The thumbnail looks okay in Bridge but when Mixer opens it, it changes all the displacement/height and albedo/diffuse values.

    So what should be vibrant colors became washed out and over exposed I then have to go and adjust all the settings to get it back to the way it should look.

    This never happened in the old version or even previous version of mixer.

    These custom surfaces that I created are used in 3D renders not just game engines.

    Mixer worked fine before and now my workflow has been interrupted by having to adjust individual layers then save them again before I can use them.

     

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  • Jimbobaggins

    The post from Waquas just showed up while I was typing the above.

    I am disappointed that this step has been taken by Quixel/Unreal,

     

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  • OrangeTheRipper

    Same here... I absolutely love Mixer 2020 (I've been using Suite 2.0 for years), but this was a HUGE blow to my overall workflow... 

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  • Jonathan (Community Manager)

    You can still work with Specular/Gloss maps - Mixer will convert Metalness/Roughness automatically once you export if you select a Specular/Gloss map target.

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  • OrangeTheRipper

    Yeah but the main issue with converting metalness -> spec is anything that is "partial metal" will export with the diffuse as the bright metal color (via the albedo of metalness), so you end up getting all sorts of errors when working with metal materials and exporting as spec/gloss. For ex make a gold material, and put a soft dust layer in the cavities - you'll have a mess of a material when exporting in spec/gloss, as you'll have a bunch of yellow in the diffuse (again, I understand why this is - just saying its part of the universal problem with metalness -> spec conversions).

    Granted, I believe metalness is always supposed to be 100% metal or non-metal, but even the packaged smart materials in mixer don't behave that way - and it eliminates some of the flexibility that i enjoyed with spec workflow. Like, how would you add a soft layer of dust without some gradient on the metalness map?

    I mean, its not a deal breaker, just sad that it existed in mixer 2019 and disappeared for 2020 as it adds a whole extra layer of cleanup I have to do on every diffuse map now.  

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  • Jonathan (Community Manager)

    Our main userbase is firmly rooted in the Metalness/Roughness workflow so it was a decision we made to ensure that we supported the base as much as possible. We may branch out to support Gloss/Specular again in the future. Apologies for any inconvenience!

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  • OrangeTheRipper

    Yep, I understand - thanks for responding! 

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  • Jimbobaggins

    Johnathan I get that your user base is now mainly game designers who work with Unreal engine and it's Metallic workflow but that wasn't always the case. Before the sale to Epic for example what about all the Unity developers who used a specular workflow. Or all the artists who used a specular workflow. I would be interested in what percentage of your user base is considered as "Main".

    I get that this is now a free resource for Unreal developers and as such Epic gets to call the shots I'm just disappointed that they decided to forget all the users that you had before they came along.

    I mean even if I pay for a subscription there is no point as I still could not work with all the custom mixes that I made using non megascan textures.

     

     

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  • Erich3D

    I definitely get your frustration Jimbo. It’s kind of the same I had when a “free” engine made all their assets free, but people who pay money only get a very limited amount every month. I too would love to know the ratio of Unreal users vs other users. Since if they made it “free” for Unreal, that must be a huge source of their income in comparison to subscribers in VFX or other game engines.

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  • Jonathan (Community Manager)

    We haven't forgotten anyone; we're simply adjusting the way we develop Mixer with a focus toward our largest customer base. Metalness users make up a very significant number of the artists working with the tools we develop. I realize that this causes an inconvenience for people primarily focused on Gloss/Specular workflows. Ultimately this decision was not made lightly but it was made for this current iteration of Mixer. Whether Gloss/Specular makes a comeback as a primary focus is not something I can speculate on publicly. The concerns brought up here are noted and are certainly not ignored - we've had plenty of discussions revolving around this topic internally but for now the course we're on is the one we're sticking with.

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  • VitLoss

    Due to the fact that beginners clutch at the first thing they get and more often use metalness workflow ... you draw erroneous conclusions ...
    The metalness workflow is not convenient, and is less clear in work ...
    it's terrible that you are doing this ...
    just take and cut off all who work in the spesular workflow ... a great idea! (((

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